true to form, God always echoes the things he speaks thru worship/music.
I shared this in the music thread, but I wanted to post it with this topic of being born again as well.
that simple faith, that mustard seed, to believe God...

-----

oh my goodness, I just came across the most amazing inde artist
Blake Aaron Mundell
www.myspace.com/blakemundell

His lyric writing is so unique and beautiful, and his acoustic style is so refreshing. I ran across his site for the first time this morning and I have a window open repeating his song MUSTARD SEED. It is just such an intimate and beautiful moment at contemplating our frailty and our dependence on a God who is always present to help, a God who walks with us even in our weakness.

Hope everyone has their Christmas decor up, especially their tree ^_^

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that first real breath

(John 3:4-8)

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

All too often we take things too literally in Scripture, so much so that we forget that there is almost always a spiritual or symbolic meaning to everything that God speaks. He is so multifaceted, addressing so many dimensions at once, that our little brains get easily fried. And so here is Nicodemus, not being that icon in scripture that we read about, but being a man, human, just like the rest of us. His thoughts became a little knotted at trying to follow the thoughts of God. And so Jesus, leads him along as a Good Shepherd, wise and gentle. Not coddling him or handing him all the answers in an instant, but challenging him to think it through and giving him direction in how to do it. There is truly no other god like our God <3

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

There is a physical birth, and there is a spiritual birth. The physical birth is into a body on the earth, a cursed and fallen realm. But the spiritual birth is into a realm inclusive yet far beyond all that is seen with your physical eyes. It is another realm that cannot be seen or touched or tasted unless you are first born into it, you must enter into it. And Jesus is the only door.

It is His Spirit, the Spirit of God, that draws you and it is that connection to Christ that jolts your deadness and causes LIFE to wake the core of your being. He is the center, the source, the electric excitement that is true Life that causes us to live and move and have our being.

In the hospital room, the doctor and nurses and family scream with delight and joy at the new arrival. In the spiritual realm that engulfs the physical, all of heaven, God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the very angels and creatures of his creation scream and shout with delight at the birth/arrival/new life that is suddenly aware of a God that loves them beyond their understanding.

7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

Being born of the Spirit, suddenly aware and alive and joined in relationship/family to God, you are made aware of so much. So many things that a person cannot sense as an unbeliever. Only after that step of faith thru that doorway, are your senses alive and awake and firmly convinced of the reality that is Christ. But God is still God, and still far beyond our understanding. Though he draws near to us and is with us, he will never lose his mystery or fascinating awe. He is so deep and so wide and so far from our ever being able to contain him in the small box that is our mind. And that is a good thing.

But being born again, and being able to actually experience the savor of the sweetness of his presence is LIFE to the fullest. There is no explanation or description of that. It is something that each person much choose to experience. It is a personal relationship that becomes a block in the building of community that is the Kingdom. It must be personal before it can be Kingdom.

Being dead, removes the right or ability to understand LIFE, to experience LOVE, to know TRUTH, to embrace GOD.

We can live a physical life, and walk around so very dead inside. We can laugh and live for self, or we can work and serve and live for the people we value. But either way, we remain dead inside. It amounts to nothing. We will physically die, and eternity will be an eternal second death with no chance of hope or life or love. It will be darkness without peace, without the presence of God, and without end. That is the second death according to Scripture. It is not your life on this earth that will remain, it will all return to dust. It is that second birth, that being born again, that entering into the life-giving-sustaining-abundantly-fulfilling LIFE through Christ Jesus.

Just as the water broke and spilled over all to mark your physical birth into this world...
the water of His Spirit spills out over you and your spirit enters into an existence that will remain forever, LIFE without end.

That scream,
that heart-cry,
that declaration,
that sudden and blinding light,
that leap of faith and fear that moves you,
propels you forward
and empties you
freeing you from the staleness that once filled your lungs

so that you can take that first real breath that is LIFE.

He becomes the very air that you breathe
and you become born again.
Here with Nicodemus,
just as we discussed at the opening of the book of John...

that is the beginning of all things.
And that is where Christ takes him here in John 3,
to the beginning
to the choice set before each of us
to believe God
to be born again.

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Fighting for Neverland

(John 3:1-3)

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

Nicodemus came to Jesus during the night, I have heard this preached as though he were afraid to be seen with Jesus because his teachings were so controversial. And that may have been the case. However, could it have been that he had been at Temple, or just come from a debate/meeting with the Jewish ruling council, and wanted to speak to Jesus about some things that were weighing on his heart.

Perhaps, he was coming to give Jesus the benefit of the doubt, and to ask him what was in his heart when he taught as he did. Perhaps when he approached him, the Spirit of God began to stir the heart of a man that was pure in his motives and in his love of God. In his attempt to understand this controversial Jesus, it would seem that the wooing of the Spirit made it into a personal encounter for Nicodemus.

Isn't it something wonderful, that here was a member of the Jewish elite, a Pharisee with great power and influence, someone who walked in a circle of crusty old arrogant leaders... isn't it beautiful to see his return to such a child-like faith as he speaks with Christ, as he learns and hungers to be born again.

I think, Nicodemus recognized the drift of the people of God, even their leaders, from the heart of God. I think the heart of the boy inside him longed for a return to the realness, the joy and innocence of a Faith motivated by Love and Trust rather than rules and arrogance, power and position. I think he was intrigued by Jesus, and the conviction of the Holy Spirit was drawing him to the Christ. Perhaps he came to Jesus by night, because he could not rest as the hunger for the will/plan of God robbed him of sleep and caused him to venture out into the night seeking answers.

We as believers have all been there at some point.

Yes, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, unless he humble himself. But that is true of all of us. Here is a man of wealth and power and reputation hungering and humbled with an almost desperation to know this Jesus, this anointed One, that seems to speak the very heart of God. Nicodemus recognized this.

3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

BORN AGAIN.

so much imagery wrapped up into one simple phrase.
Dying to self -- Living for Christ.
Dying to who your were, a sinner -- and Living as a Child/Heir of the King.
Dying to the desire to please the world -- Living to please only Him.
From a dead, dying, crusted religion -- to a new beginning, Hope, Life, Freedom, Joy.

No wonder this passage has become the benchmark verse for the new believer.
Talk about Never Never Land and the Lost Boys and Never losing that child-like Faith in all that is good and free of darkness, where there are no more tears to be wiped away, no more burdens to carry, no more regret and dread and guilt and bondage. Every generation seeks that fountain of youth, that escape to an imaginary place where evil is shunned and defeated.

But there is a real place, a real existence, a real eternity in which you can remain that care-free child growing and always learning and advancing with a Father and Family that will remain forever with you. Innocent in your Joy and your Faith and your Love, Mature in your Ability and your Service and your Heritage. A place that fulfills you in every way, young and old, because Christ has finished/completed all to make it a reality for you...

1To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.

5Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." 6Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

8Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

10And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. 11To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen. (I Peter 5:1-11)

There is no Neverland.
But there is a real Kingdom of God, and there is an enlistment of all who are willing to fight for it. The battle will be short-lived, but the victory is guaranteed and the spoils are everything you could imagine and more.

So many would fight for such a place as Neverland,
Why not do it for a Kingdom that is actually real and offered to you by a King that loves you and would die for you so that you could inherit the desires of your heart and His? A King so powerful that he could pick his life back up, so loving that nothing will ever remove you from his heart or his hand or his presence?

27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:37-39)

Be a child again.

The world laughs and scoffs at such a thing.
But God offers you the best of both worlds: Innocence and Maturity
... all wrapped up in one simple gift purchased specifically for you and for me.
He loves us as his children. You are loved. You are loved by God. He wants to ensure your Health and your Joy and your Future. He is the Creator and God of all things, and he says that you have his permission to be child-like...

Come and play.

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as opposed to false-humility

(John 2:18-25)

18Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?"

So here are the Jews, freaking out a little that some nobody would walk into the Temple and take charge in the name of God, and disrupt the flow of things that had come to be accepted. So basically they were yelling at Jesus, "Who do you think you are!" The Temple/church leaders had not approved of this outburst, they had not condemned the merchandising that was going on. And they were the voices of authority second to God. So the Jews were demanding, "you better whip out some miracle that proves that God has given you permission to do this, or we're gonna nail you to the wall!"

I don't think they were really expecting him to perform a miracle. I think it was a bit of sarcasm because they were so outraged by his barging into the Temple and acting like he was in charge. They were, however, expecting him to answer for himself. And so he did...

19Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

That was the answer to their question on both counts (though they were unable to comprehend the Truth of what Christ was saying), "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?"

1) His resurrection after offering himself (allowing the destruction of his physical body thru death) as payment for their sins would be the miracle he would perform. But of coarse, there was no way to explain that to them in the moment so that they could understand or accept it. He would have to wait for the right time of fulfillment. So for now, he endured their scoffing and their assumptions that he was a blasphemous madman.

2) Offering himself as payment, the miracle of the incarnation/death/resurrection was the proof and fulfillment that declared and revealed his authority to do such things. He was and is God, not second to Him.

20The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

Oh, don't you wish we had that patience, that ability to be content with stating the Truth whether people believed/understood us or not. Don't you wish that when we profess our faith in Jesus to heal or to save or to intervene or to participate in our joy... that we could remain unaffected by the blank stares and mocking laughter of the world and of religion?

But here is Christ. Here is God himself setting the example for us. We must do what the Spirit of God compels us to do, all that the heart of his word declares, and to remain standing when people (even other Christians sometimes, even family, even friends) try to shame us or silence us. The Word of our testimony must go forth. It is that word combined with the blood of Jesus that ensures that we will overcome all. Christ overcame it, so that we could follow his example... so that we could be with him forever and be blessed.

(Eph 6:13-15)
13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.

(Rev 12:10-11)
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.

(John 16:29-33, amplified)
29His disciples said, Ah, now You are speaking plainly to us and not in parables (veiled language and figures of speech)!

30Now we know that You are acquainted with everything and have no need to be asked questions. Because of this we believe that you [really] came from God.

31Jesus answered them, Do you now believe? [Do you believe it at last?]

32But take notice, the hour is coming, and it has arrived, when you will all be dispersed and scattered, every man to his own home, leaving Me alone. Yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me.

33I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.]

The Jews could not understand what Christ was speaking of. His own disciples couldn't understand the depth of it all at the start of Christ's ministry. The revelation of the Truth would only come after they had walked thru many things with Jesus, but as stated in John 16 above, there came that ah-ha moment when they understood.

We feel so alone sometimes when we think that no one understands us. Jesus does. He stood in that place of knowing the Truth, knowing that his heart was following the will of God to the letter, but having to endure the ridicule -- the looking down their noses of everyone around him -- the labels put upon him because his words and actions seemed so removed from the norm and the ritual. Zeal and passion for Christ and for following hard after his example, will often times put you in that place. I can never say it enough...

you are not alone.

23Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the miraculous signs he was doing and believed in his name. 24But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. 25He did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.

Not here, as they demanded a sign, but later when the heart and motive was right/pure, Christ performed many miracles and many believed in his authority because of them. But he was always careful that such things were performed to glorify God the Father, and God as a whole, never for a show to move himself to the top of the pack, to the forefront, to the pinnacle.

It was Satan and the spirit of the world that moved him to the pinnacle and tried to tempt him to prove himself, to demonstrate his power, to walk in arrogance elevating self for all to worship. That was what was in man. That was what Christ was careful not to do. And that is the example that he left for us in this passage.

humility.

He had the power, but he laid it down. He could have performed a miracle and showed them who was boss, but he endured their scoffing and ridicule instead. He could have called a legion of angels to stop the crucifixion at any given moment, but he committed to it all with zeal to the end. He had the power to have his own way, but he gave it all up in Gethsemane -- even before Gethsemane. He emptied his heart of his own desires as a man, and he yielded himself to the heart of God, his Father...

for the very ones that stood scoffing and that would later scream, "Crucify Him!"
for the very ones that would choose self and arrogance over love and mercy.
for the Jews in that moment, for the hypocrite, for the sinner, for you and for me.

He emptied himself,
and he asks us to do the same.

To bite our tongue when there is so much we could say to wound an enemy. To remember kindness when something brilliant pops into our head that would win an argument. To remain gentle, and always focused on building people up rather than tearing them down... in every situation. To be unafraid to walk with zeal and passion as we follow the heart of God, yet to commit the sting of the pain to him when people don't understand us or begin to make fun of us. To let anger and violence and vengeance belong to God, to empty ourselves, and to yield to the heart and will of God rather than our own wants.

Risking embarrassment when we are sometimes led by God to be loud or violent.
Sacrificing our words/feelings/need for justice when the motive is not purely God.
Can we walk away from the attention of performing a miracle (showing off our talent/gift),
and wait for the right moment to glorify God -- that moment that causes us to blend in as a member of the team rather than to manipulate the spotlight so that we can be idolized as the star player.

He emptied himself,
and he asks us to do the same.

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would he be right?

(John 2:12-17)


12After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days.

How different this culture is from our own. It seems that we think that we must distance ourselves from our parents/our family to prove our independence and adulthood, our coming into our own. Much like the prodigal son that demanded his share of the inheritance and walked away from his father and family.

There is a line/boundary set by God that adult children are to cleave to their spouse. That means to put their spouse's well being and needs above that of their family. There is an unhealthy level of bringing your family into your marriage/the raising of your children that goes against that command of God. But when things are kept in order as the word of God and common sense dictate, then family should never be something that we have to be ashamed of (or that we need to shun) in order to prove anything to anyone.

Here, we see Jesus traveling with his mother and family and friends and students. He travels with anyone that is able and willing to go where he is going. It made him more human to be among family, because he was fully human. Could it be that when we distance ourselves from family thinking that they are an embarrassment to our agenda -- that we are NOT-human and inhumane?

13When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money.

Okay, it would be easy to brush past the opening of this scene, but there is so much here to think on. Things that are key to what is about to happen. The Passover was at hand, rather the time of remembrance and honor of what God had done for their people. The Jews were looking back to Moses and the passing over of the people of Israel by the death angel. They thought of the dark night when God sent an angel to kill the first born of Egypt and to free His people from bondage.

Or did they.

Perhaps the Passover had become much like our Thanksgiving. The Jews were not looking ahead to what the Messiah would do as a sacrificial lamb. They had no clue what Christ was about to do for them and for all who would believe because of them.

Perhaps, it was like going to the mall and seeing all the glitter and glitz of advertising and buying and selling and celebration of the ritual rather than the God that caused death to pass them over -- the God that covered them/protected them with grace and mercy as he pardoned them from their many sins and guilt.

Perhaps, they had reached a place in their society where they had forgotten about the blood of that innocent lamb that was smeared upon their doorposts -- that bloody cross dripping from the top to the ground splattered on each side of the wooden frame -- that ridiculously extravagant price paid, that LIFE sacrificed, that precious one offered and who willingly died, that blood that marked them and freed them from bondage.

Perhaps all they saw was a lamb (turkey) for the feast and all the trimmings (cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie). Perhaps, with great distraction, they mumbled Thanks God as they hurried off to hang out with their friends downtown at the temple. or to show off their costumes for the Passover play, or to make that gorgeous centerpiece for the dinner banquet that night.

Perhaps Capernaum had become more commercial than we realize.
Perhaps they were more like us than we realize...

15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

17His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."

What if Jesus strolled thru the mall and saw all the Halloween leftovers and the tinsel hung to encourage people to spend more money on Christmas shopping... what if he began tearing thru the mall ripping it all down? What if he started going from church to church and Bible study home to Bible study home and began heaving tables over and tossing your Thanksgiving meal all around the room and into everyone's laps?

What if he made a small whip and began stinging your guests to run them out of the house and started chucking Aunt Martha's best pies out the window? What if he spoke all that was in his heart and said how hurt and angry he was that we have idolized the ritual and taken for granted the Life that was given? What if he warned us that we were too focused on spending money and gift-giving? That we had missed the mark? That we have forgotten him in the busyness? That he was disappointed in us that we would allow ourselves to be sucked into the commercialism and a worldly mindset (whether we realized it or not), so that honoring him and the relationships that he has blessed us with... carry less of a shine for us as we eat a big meal in November simply to mark the start of a month of shopping in December?

What if he rebuked us for spending the entire Thanksgiving meal discussing the biggest sales in the morning rather than his many blessings to us all and how much we appreciate one another? What if he said it was more important to us to leave Grandma's house early so we could get to bed and hit the early-bird Christmas sales at 4:00am, than to be sure that we have thanked and encouraged every person we can?

What if Christ stood in the mess of the turkey and mashed potatoes and tinsel now scattered on the floor and smeared over the doorposts of our heart, crying in his frustration at our unthankfulness, breathing with a restrained groan of pain as he gently stepped forward to embrace us... to stand forehead to forehead with us as he searches our eyes and speaks something so disturbing to us,

"... you have forgotten me."

would he be right?

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Daily Hello: and BAM! it's mid-November
Nov 12, 2007

Wow, it was suddenly autumn and it was suddenly really really busy, and BAM! now it's the middle of November. Christmas is a little over a month away. I am chomping at the bit to put up my tree and hang all the tinselee stuff, and I may or may not wait until after Thanksgiving.

So the weather turned off cold, then suddenly it warmed up again. Isn't that some kind of Indian summer or Blackberry winter or something. I can never remember all those old sayings and seasonal things.

I just know that the weather outside isn't so FRIGHTFUL as the song says it's supposed to be as Christmas approaches. Hopefully it will be very soon though. It would be very nice to have a good deep, thick, snow-ball-packing, Frosty-building, white Christmas.

Life goes on. With all it's ups and downs and loop-tah-loops... and fruity loops... and stuff. It changes as it speeds by and yet is stays exactly the same, if that makes any sense. I think I change way more than life does. There's good and bad in that, but life is life. I'll bask in the sunshine when the clouds part, I'll cry when it hurts, I'll smile when it amuses me... and I'll breathe the warmth of a hot cup of coffee with a friend when the rain falls and the world seems cold and sad.

All that matters is Christ. Loving him and assuring people how much he loves them. This life is a fleeting shadow, a moment to hold up a sign on a sidewalk, to help someone carry their groceries, to encourage them that their brief existence has a God-given purpose and significance, that they matter, that there will eventually be a definite end to it all, and yet... a fascinating, worth-the-pain, beyond imagination, eternal beginning.
I'm sure of it.

It's all good, cause we're not walking it alone.
He is always with us, to the end and on to the beginning.

(((hugs)))

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Bucket by Bucket

(John 2:6-11)

6Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.

Mary makes the need known and looks to Jesus. Then she leaves it to him to respond however he chooses, trusting that whatever he decides to do, it will bring the greatest peace and the wisest outcome. How easy that sounds, but we all know how difficult it is to trust like that.

Yet, here is Mary, unchanged in her reliance and trust in the God that she loves. Even in the cares of this life, she casts it all at the feet of Christ and trusts him to accomplish the many things that she will never understand.

I don't think this was a preordained moment for the first miracle to occur. I don't think it was in everyone's mind that this event was about to become documented in history for eternity. I think it was a background moment, one that seemed very unnoticed at the time. I think it was like carrying the church tables and setting them up in the parking lot for the Fall Festival, or breaking down the chairs in the sanctuary for a special prayer service on a Friday night. I think it was just another moment that needed people to serve one another. It is in moments like that that miracles occur. When hearts are thinking of everyone other than themselves.

So Christ looks at what is at hand and what he has to work with. And there conveniently stands six large empty water pots. Not pitchers... but pots that probably stood on the ground and came to their waist. Holding 20-30 gallons each, that's 120-360 gallons of paint, or 24-36 five gallon buckets of water that had to be toted from the well (those big white buckets that you see sitting around on construction sites). Six large water pots sounds so small, but we're talking about holding alot of water.

7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.

Jesus looks around the room having made up his mind that Mary's request was a selfless one, having weighed the situation and having determined to bless it. He sees the water pots and tells the servants to fill them with water. What must have run thru their minds?...

What was he thinking? Was he going to ignore Mary's request? Would he put it off for later?

Why was he asking them to tote all that water and fill the jars? They didn't need more water at the moment. There seemed no reason to ask them to do all that unnecessary work when they were already tired from setting up the festivities and would eventually be preparing the breakdown of it all as well.

But they had been told to do whatever he asked, and so they did without question. Not only did they do what he said, they did it to the full. The pots were filled to the brim. They could have filled them halfway or left them barely full, but no. These were obedient servants, people of integrity, and they filled the pots to almost overflowing. The abundance of wine is partially to their credit as well.

8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."
They did so,

Now this was a bold move. Again the integrity of the servants was put to the test. How small their role seems when we first scan over this story but how great is their character in affecting the outcome of this story, the miracle that resulted.

The servants were obedient to Mary's instruction. They didn't do a halfway job, rather they went beyond what was asked of them filling the pots to the brim. And now, they are asked to serve a glass of water to the host, to bother him at a busy time and hand him something that he had not asked for. Would they obey Mary by obeying Christ and take the water to the host? Would they risk appearing foolish, would they risk a good scolding or reprimand by angering the master of the house?

yes.

They trusted Mary, and they trusted Christ because Mary trusted him.
Mary was seen as having a good character and as a woman of integrity. The servants were also good and Godly and committed people. And Christ, well, he was Christ, and his character and faithfulness was the source of theirs.

(Ecc 4:12)
Though one may be overpowered,
two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken.

Who you trust determines the strength of the cord/rope. One person may weaken the line, but when you work within a network of Godly people -- the strength of one mind and one Spirit, and Faith in the One True God, will be enough to carry any weight. God will guard that truth....

even if he must do a miracle to ensure it.

9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.

I love that this passage specifies that the servants knew. They knew because they were the ones that took the risk. They knew because they wondered at what Jesus had asked of them and had prepared themselves to bear the brunt of his actions -- actions that required them to do something that made no sense and that came at an inopportune time, during a busy wedding feast. The servants knew that the liquid in that cup was plain ol' every day water from the well just outside. And so, they held their breath and wondered at this curious situation that they were thrust into the middle of.

Then he called the bridegroom aside
10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."

This is interesting to me because I never noticed that he pulled the bridegroom aside and spoke with him quietly. I had always thought that he shouted this comment in front of all the guests. But this was said almost in a whisper to the bridegroom (who was evidently responsible for supplying the wine). So the story must have been spread mainly by the servants. Again, we see Christ going to the unnoticed, the servant, the common people... a young Jewish girl in a small town, humble shepherds in the field, insignificant women at his resurrection, and here... meager house servants are the witnesses and participants of his first miracle.

We elbow and fight to get to the front of the line, to the top of the pile, to be the leader, the king of the hill, that little mound of dirt and nothing... while the true miracles, the amazing things, the presence of God -- manifests itself more often in the quiet places, the ordinary situations, the lives of seemingly unimportant people... that's where Christ seems to focus his blessing and goodness.

If only our heart would continue to go there, to strive to be where he would be, to cherish and embrace the small and ordinary, the down-trodden and oppressed, the lonely and the broken-hearted... perhaps we would be in the midst of the miraculous more often rather than standing on a mound of dirt wearing a pasted crown and looking more like a jester than the authentic kings and priests that God intended.

11This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.

So here we have it. The first documented miracle of Christ. Water poured into pots, bucket by bucket, served in a cup, changed somewhere along the line into wine -- miraculously. A story, a testimony, whispered as a compliment between friends... and witnessed as a miracle among servants. Not only made into wine, but the finest quality wine. The first of many miracles that would cause his followers to believe -- that would teach his disciples what to look for, what God wants to bless, what right soil/hearts will yield miraculous harvest.

Perhaps the explanation of Mary's concern lies in the whisper of that compliment. The bridegroom was credited for the wine, so it must have been his responsibility to supply it. For whatever reason, Mary feared his embarrassment. Perhaps it would shame his bride, or his family name, or himself. Perhaps it would negatively label his family, or caused the bride's family to lack confidence in his ability to provide for their daughter. Who knows.

I don't know if it was a desire to save someone from being shamed that moved Christ to perform such a miracle, or if it was the faith of Mary in him as God, or if it was the obedience and integrity of the servants. Perhaps it was all three.

How wonderful God is! How inspiring are all the characters involved in this one incident. If only we could walk with such compassion, such faithfulness, such obedience, such integrity. Perhaps miracles would be something that we actually do and see, rather than merely read about. Perhaps helping people and relieving their misery in the name of Christ would be a daily occurrence, the norm.

Father, I ask that you help us to be more like you in these things, that you would enable us and equip us to reflect your character in all that we do and say and think and feel. So that you will be so pleased with us that you are moved to manifest your presence and your affection among us as never before. So that people will know your love and live with a greater peace and deep-seeded joy as we share your goodness with others. In the name of Jesus we ask. Amen.

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(from C)
Battling Demons

...a whle back, like a few years ago, I did have a dream I remember quite vividly. Most of it anyways. It starts out with me and three friends are walking around, and me feeling incredibly mischievious. So, we go up to this large white house, an ordinary house, nothing out of the ordinary. As we walk around it, I spy a small window at the foot of the house that has a view of the basement. We peer inside and see a legion of demons plotting and scheming like in somekind of underground lair. Me being the adventureous and noble type, I grab a sword out of nowhere and convince my friend to commence dstroying all them. I was completely fearless at this point. So, that's what we did. We broke through the window and I started hacking and slashing them all to death. They were screaming in pain and agony as they fell to my blade. All seem fine as me and my friends were easily killing all of them when, out of no where, Satan himself appears. He was a giant creature, a moster straight out of any horror movie. He had spikes growing out of his shoulders, and three clawed fingers for each hand. His head was like that of a cow, with a long snout and two horns petruding from his head. It was at that moment that I knew true fear. My friends and I dropped our weapons and ran out of the place. We split up, but, just as my dreams go, the demon followed me. I couldn't out run it. I ran as if I were in water and it gained quickly.Ahead of me there was a chain link fence and I proceed to climb over it, hoping it would by me some time. Suddenly, again out of no where, this paul bunion type character comes and tackles the monster, saving me from an otherwise inevitable death. How insane is that?

-------------------------

(selahgirl)

sounds like wars and warfare, much like the videogames that draw your attention, are a language that you relate to. The whole dream contains alot of symbolism. Whether it's just a junk dream or whether God is wanting to give you some direction for your life is something you have to discern personally.

Prayer and a regular time of reading your Bible are key to hearing from God. Just being committed to it and actually desiring it so that it's something positive in your life and not a chore -- will open a door to encountering Christ that just can't be explained.

I think your dream is saying just that. I also think that God is revealing a call on your life (a gift of influence) to lead others into battle, spiritual battles, specifically prayer. To fight for people (especially your leaders and the people you love) by praying for them.

The house is a Godly ministry of some sorts, could simply represent the church in general. It's no secret that the enemy is constantly attacking people in the church and ministry itself. These creatures are hiding in the low places, the hidden places, within the church itself. That's also no secret, think back to the many rebukes in Scripture about sin in the churches and church leadership.

Here is the catch, the battle is not in the physical as much as it is in the spiritual. Consider Ephesians 6. We can wear the armor all day long and strut around in it, but we aren't really warriors until we get dirty in the battle and actually pray. The focus of the armor is just as much what you do when you wear it... as what each piece represents. It's a spiritual armor, but here is the focus once it's in place:

16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
19Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

I kinda feel that the three people in the dream that are walking with you are the Trinity, but later they represent other people that you are to lead/teach/encourage (or set the example for) in committing to prayer and studying the Scriptures. That mischievous feeling may simply be the call and gifting of God upon you to war against spiritual darkness. Some people call it an anointing, much like what Samson felt.

Looking thru windows is often (not always) symbolic of having a good discernment, or being called to operate in spiritual places (prayer and intercession). Praying into spiritual matters, declaring things and petitioning the throne of God, is something all Christians are to do, but some people are extremely gifted at it and have an intuitive sense of what to pray -- and often Scripture will come to mind that emphasizes what/how to pray.

Looking thru the window is symbolic for looking into the spiritual and seeing what needs to be covered in prayer. It is a small window, so I think God is stressing to not get caught up with the spiritual side as though it were a big thing. Don't lose site of the heart of the matter... prayer to minister, to restore people to Christ, and to bring about the will of God in the lives of people. The Holy Spirit draws people to Christ. That is the heart of praying in the Spirit, praying with the Spirit, agreeing with Him, declaring it on the earth.

The sword, of coarse, is Scripture, reading and studying the word of God. Without that, you will without doubt step off into error and arrogance. Everyone does. It is the Word of God that brings all things back to focus because life itself seems to pull us all in a gradual drift from solid Truth. That Sword is our greatest weapon, and just like in your dream, the enemy fears it and will freak every time when we pick it up. Speaking the Words of God to ourselves or to others is actually like waving a sword at the enemy and obliterating him just like you and your friends were doing. It truly butchers them and their grip on our lives. That part of your dream was an excellent picture of it.

At this point of your dream, there is a shift. As though God may be saying
1. Up your prayer life and your study of Scripture. and
2...

(Ill finish this in a second message, this one may be too wordy to send already. haha).

***
I meant to also mention about the breaking thru the window. It just might be that God wants you to break that barrier that kind of keeps our prayer life separate from our real life. Perhaps, as you make it more of your real life, it will influence others to do the same. Breaking thru something often runs a risk of some small cuts and bruises to our pride (not that you've got any more pride or arrogance than the rest of us ^_^), but it all depends on how bad we want to see the lives of the people we care about affected. People can't be forced, but the Spirit of God can convince them to remain in His perfect will when we pray for them.

So back to point 2...

Satan is not representing Satan per se'. He is representing whatever it is that is holding you back or trying to. Perhaps, there is something that you fear or that absolutely saps your courage and zeal to sell out to whatever it is that Christ is asking your to do in ministry or in your walk. Only you would know what that is. The dream gives no clue. Only that it is something that makes you feel hopeless, as though you just can't overcome it or defeat it or escape it. It's like the ultimate enemy, or at least is makes you feel that way.

Your confidence influences those around you. Influence is a mark of a call to be a leader. People will follow you, not all people, but some will. And as a Christian, you must lead them to Christ or into a relationship with Him that is more real than they now know. Not just the unsaved, but other Christians as well, your peers, your friends, your generation and the generations surrounding yours.

When you are courageous, they will follow you anywhere. But when you become afraid or you give up, they also follow your lead and give in to fear. You cannot lose site that your walk, your courage to serve Christ in the midst of any attack, will influence many others that are looking to your example for strength. It will never just be about you or any other one person. We are all connected and we all draw our strength from Christ and the family of God. We are One in Christ and that Truth affects everything. Jesus prayed this for us in John 17

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:
23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Notice that not only did your drop your weapon (your prayer life and Scripture study), but you and your friends became divided and went their separate ways. The enemy loves to scatter us, because we are easier to pick off when we are alone.

The demon following you symbolizes that not only does the enemy want to destroy the things/people in our lives, he wants us dead. Running will never bring escape, he will always pursue. Running in water is symbolic of fear of failure or lack of confidence. Everyone dreams that same thing at some point in their life. Either they run in slow motion or they can't scream or they try to do something and their strength is just gone. Often times they are things that don't even relate to the thing that you are struggling with in real life. It's more about the emotions that are in your heart or in your thoughts.

Often, as you gain confidence in what you are fearing or lacking, your dreams will reflect overcoming things. Being able to actually yell back at your enemy or calling on the name of Christ to help you -- or flying with great speed rather than struggling to run.

Jumping over the fence, trying to buy some time, putting things off for just a moment to get your breath and think clearly, are all instinct. Some see it as negative, but it's actually a natural response. Although, we must eventually realize that such attempts to save ourselves simply won't work. We must look to God or to the resources/people that he put in our life for advice/wisdom. We need help sometimes and can't always do it alone.

Paul Bunyon... much depends on what exactly your impression is of that character. Is he like a savior figure, a patriot, invincible, strength? He could easily represent the strength and boldness that are the key to saving you from whatever it is that is causing fear or discouragement or lack of confidence in your life. Or he could be a friend or family member or someone that is praying for you or influencing your life for Christ. Kinda like they are a glimpse into who Christ wants you to become in the lives of other people.

Or it could be Christ, who comes from no where and saves you when you feel cornered, hopeless, or without options. Maybe he wants to assure you that you will never be too far from his presence, never to far for him to make himself known and to watch your back when you feel overwhelmed. Or maybe he represents all of these things. idk.

2. There is something that is holding you back. Something that causes you to feel powerless when you face it. God has your back covered, but he wants you to get to a place where you can face this thing and fulfill whatever it is that he is calling you to do or be. It could be some huge issue that you're dealing with, or it could be something so small that you didn't even notice it. Or it could just be God calling you to step up for the first time, so he can tell you what to do next.

A place to start might be something at church that has been in the back of your mind but you just haven't committed to for whatever reason. Has some obscure or unnoticed opportunity opened up that would challenge you to pray more or study the Bible more or serve people more. Not like seminary school, but something that just keeps coming up or weighing on your mind that maybe you should get more involved in at church or for Christ?

Like I said, all of this is up to your own interpretation. If God is saying anything, then something will jump out at you and become clear. Otherwise, be careful to not read anything into what I've said. I'm going strictly on my understanding of the symbolism in your dream. But it could mean a hundred different things or nothing at all. Pray about it all, and find someone in the church that seems solid and ask his thoughts on it. Then go with whatever God puts in your heart based on His Word. Seek wisdom and counsel from people, but always let God be God and every man a liar if they contradict Him.

1What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.
3What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
"So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge." (Rom 3)

Hope this helps.
If any of it seems too crazy or confusing, then just disregard it all. Pray and seek God's direction, and he will reveal his heart to you. He never ignores the requests of his kids. Sometimes dreams are just our brain rummaging thru our thoughts from the day.

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WHATEVER HE TELLS YOU

(John 2:4-5)

4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."
5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

Mary had been amazed from the moment that Gabriel appeared to her with a message from God. We think that it was an obvious and effortless response to agree to birth the Messiah, but I believe that it was a sober and deep-selah moment. I think she thought hard about the message that was presented to her before giving an answer. I believe she knew that once she answered and accepted what was being asked of her -- there would be no going back. There would be consequences (positive and negative) as a result of her response to the message that was delivered.

Have you ever been asked something, something that you knew would affect everything and everyone in your life for the rest of your existence and on into eternity? You think you know what you will respond with, you feel it in the core of your being, in your gut, but you run thru every detail several times in your heart and thoughts before answering. Your eyes zone out, your vision blurs, as everything in you walks thru the thought process in your mind, sorting and weighing everything you know and understand -- all in order to confirm that simple yes or no that you are about to commit to.

I believe that Mary had that moment, that slowing down of her breathing, that drift of vision, as she contemplated how she would respond to what God was asking or assigning to her. She knew the nature/heart of her God. She knew his power/supremacy/wisdom. She understood that for him to ask such a thing of her meant that the importance of it was far beyond understanding. It wasn't a matter of fully understanding the mind of God, nor of comprehending how such a miracle could be accomplished or why it was necessary. It was a matter of making up her mind in that one brief moment to submit herself completely to God. That's why she was chosen. She wasn't holier than most, or beyond what you or I am capable of. She was resolute in her commitments, that was the defining character of this chosen, blessed girl.

Mary was focused on loving God to the point of trusting him no matter what he asked of her. Because he knew her character, that she was devout in whatever she committed herself to do or not do... God knew that her heart would yield to his will above her own.

We are all chosen by God to perform something, to play a key role in the arrival of the Kingdom of God. We all have the opportunity to be known as blessed in many different ways. The key lies in our response to whatever it is that God is asking of us at any given moment. I think Mary had many choices set before her before this moment. I think she answered no to some, I think she was just as imperfect as the rest of us and missed the will of God on occasion. But I also think that there was a consistent strength and commitment in her heart that caused her to strive to choose the will of God over her own -- a consistency that grew over time until she was at a place where she had learned to trust God almost instinctively. I believe that she made up her mind to be passionate and violent with herself or anything that tried to hinder her from choosing the will of God.

The many small choices she had made in the years previous (the many difficulties in life and the many temptations) -- I think all prepared her and trained her to consider and weigh every choice, solidifying her ability to be resolute and to arrive at the right response more quickly --

"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." (Luke 1:38)

Mary didn't have to have all the answers. She knew that if her heart/motives were pure, she could ask God anything and trust his response no matter what it might be. She knew that God has a plan, but he is always open to work our heart's desire out for us at any given moment. She understood that he considers our requests and petitions, and that what we ask of him matters.

The need for wine at this feast was important to Mary, for whatever reason. Maybe it wasn't to you or me or anyone else, but it was to her. She took that request to Jesus because she had learned that no matter how big or how small the need -- he always has an answer that will bring peace to any situation. And she was right to ask this of him. He conversed with her briefly about the situation to let her know that he had heard her, that he wanted to understand her request, that he wanted her to understand his heart... and then he responded

with a miracle.

Mary told the servants to do whatever he asked of them. She knew that that was the key.
Yield to God, submit to Him, trust Him with all that you hold dear...
and God will respond every time in ways that will cause you to be called BLESSED.

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Pigs and Grapes and Stuff

(John 2:2-3)

2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."

Just in the first three verses of this chapter, there is so much potential for scandal. First the divinity of Mary, now the issue of alcohol... it just proves that there is no issue that Scripture doesn't deal with in some way. We have trivialized the Word of God, and carved it on stone rather than in our hearts. How sad. Such an idolizing of spiritual tools threatens to undo all that Christ came to earth to accomplish.

Of coarse, the will of God is already fulfilled. Nevertheless, it remains a threat on a personal level for each person trying to understand the will of God for their life. All I'm saying is that the heart of the law is so much more important than the manner or device used to communicate it to people. Yes the word, the commands of God are the heart of the law, but somewhere along the way we have manipulated doctrine into an idol, a god that needs men to defend it.

Trust me, we simply state the Truth, declare what we believe about Christ and all that he spoke about justice, faithfulness, and the love of God for all people... and God can defend his commands and his Word.

Alcohol...

I am currently attending a Nazarene Church after many journeys (old and new) in search of God's will for the life of my family. I have been TRULY blessed by the honesty of their doctrine of alcohol. It is refreshing to hear that the evidence in Scripture is not one that proclaims that all alcohol is gross sin, that it will send you to hell.

Rather, they teach that it is the root of many social evils and is therefore something that they encourage believers to abstain from. Wow... I love honesty, it's so refreshing.

I don't believe that all alcohol consumption is sin. I do however, firmly believe that getting drunk is.

I had been taught that all the words in the NT where alcohol was consumed in a positive light, were actually interpreted in the original Greek as meaning unfermented grape juice. I accepted this teaching for a while, but as I read further and further into Scripture, something weighed on my mind about it all. So I spent an entire day (when I was in my twenties), literally, digging thru Scripture, concordances, bible dictionaries, and reference material trying to understand it all. My conclusion at the end of the day was that, drinking alcohol will not send you to hell -- though drunkenness can.

Bottom line, if you can't stop yourself, if you lack SELF-CONTROL to the point of often finding yourself reaping some difficult consequences or inflicting painful consequences on the lives of the people around you... then you should never touch a drop.

Gluttony, drunkenness, over-indulgence, will quickly change the effects of wine into something negative -- as well as make you vomit and pass out. Just being real here.

It wasn't a matter of craving to drink alcohol, it was more a matter of dealing with teens and young converts that were asking me questions about alcohol and I was giving them answers based on church doctrine rather than the Scriptures. Though I loved the people in that church, I was struggling with teaching things that I was not convinced of after ten years of membership. Leaving that church was very difficult, but several things confirmed that God was calling our family to a different place in our walk with Him.

We fasted from alcohol for over 12 years, respecting out commitment to membership. But as a teacher, I could not continue in teaching a doctrine that I didn't fully believe.

As I studied many of the passages that had been referenced to me by leaders as meaning grape juice, I found that most all actually referred to generic terms that could mean fermented or unfermented grape juice. It simply meant any fruit, alcoholic and not, that came from the grapevines.

It was stated that there is no way that Jesus would turn the water into fermented wine and get a bunch of people drunk at a party. His holiness makes us instantly agree, but after putting much thought and study to it, I just can't agree with several assumptions tacked onto that comment. Getting drunk is a choice just like any other sin. Sex can lead to prostitution and adultery, but God created sex. Many things are distorted or abused by people and the enemy that result in sin and social evil. But isn't there some word of wisdom about a baby and some bath water...

I also considered the Jewish wedding ceremonies, old and new. Little has changed, and fermented wine is the drink of choice. If Jesus truly performed this miracle to save this family from discrace/embarrassment on behalf of his mother, their hostess/friend, I believe the wine he created in those barrels was the best fermented grape juice of the day. Just like the guy declared when he stood and raved over the quality.

Wine is often linked to times of celebration:

(I Chronicles 12:38-40)

38 All these were fighting men who volunteered to serve in the ranks. They came to Hebron fully determined to make David king over all Israel. All the rest of the Israelites were also of one mind to make David king. 39 The men spent three days there with David, eating and drinking, for their families had supplied provisions for them. 40 Also, their neighbors from as far away as Issachar, Zebulun and Naphtali came bringing food on donkeys, camels, mules and oxen. There were plentiful supplies of flour, fig cakes, raisin cakes, wine, oil, cattle and sheep, for there was joy in Israel.

The word for wine here is from the Hebrew 3196 as referenced in Strong's. It means fermented wine, or intoxication as in banqueting or wine-bibber.

Consider Luke 7, as Christ addresses the Temple Leaders:

33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." '

The word for wine here is from the Greek 3631, and can mean fermented or unfermented, and is also associated with the derivation of the Hebrew above 3196.

I shun *shshshuuuunnnnn* (for all you Charlie the unicorn lovers out there) all that researchy-sounding stuff when at all possible. But research is kinda essential in some respect at all times. Though I firmly believe that God designed the workings of his Word and his Spirit to allow any common folk or person like myself to pick up a Bible and understand whatever he wants to say to us at any given moment of our walk. The Word is alive. It's aLIVE! aLIVE I say!

so yeah...

And another thing, we're told to give it to people when they sorrow or grieve. Some argue that we have meds for that now. But what's the difference in the pastor's wife taking a benedryl or some ludes to help her sleep than a glass of wine or two. Other than the wine could be arguably healthier and less addictive.

I've also considered the don't cause your brother to stumble passage in Romans 14.

16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

This passage is referring to doing things in the presence of people that they find offensive. If you go to Mexico and burp after a meal, it is offensive. If you do the same thing in Germany, it is more of a compliment. Burping isn't a sin, but don't do it or argue that it's okay when someone in Mexico is hosting a dinner.

This passage is about food more than alcohol. So who doesn't drink alcohol? Do you eat pork? Do you eat meat? most of you do. But when reasonable, don't drink alcohol in front of someone that struggles with drunkenness, don't eat pork in front of a Jew or Muslim, and don't eat meat in front of a Vegan. Sometimes it can't be helped, or sometimes, it's a situation where it's not unreasonable, and sometimes people are going to take offense with you no matter what. But basically, be considerate, even to the point of sacrificing your freedom in a certain area for a certain time.

These aren't meant to lash out at anyone, though I've been hammered on the issue by others of the same Faith. I am simply walking you thru some of the thought processes that brought me some clarity on the issue. There are more, but I strive to keep these posts brief, tho I obviously fail miserably at it from time to time.

All that to say that I don't believe that wine in moderation will send you to hell.

However... if you are underage and drinking... or driving and drinking... or any such thing as that where you are violating the laws of your people and nation... then you be in sin when you drink alcohol in any form.

(I Peter 2:13-15)

13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.

I have seen people that THINK that they can stop themselves -- be dead wrong. I have seen teens that think it will boost their social status and give them power/control over their own life. I have seen people total their cars, kill their best friend or a family member, spend months/years in jail or appearing before judge after judge. I have seen DRUNKENNESS rob people of so much. I have seen alcohol mixed with a lack of wisdom and a lack of self-control intensify the stupidity and foolishness of many a person consumed and caught up with their own arrogance.

Funny thing is that they think they are just as wise and in-control of themselves as the next person. They can't step outside themselves and see themselves stagger and offend and harm the people around them... until it's too late and someone is dead or a relationship is damaged... sometimes beyond repair. Sometimes it's better to just never open Pandora's box, when you're not sure of what's inside